Vine of Obstacles Zen Training: What's the Point?

Some years ago, Tetsugan Sensei and I met with a student who said they were interested in doing Zen training with us. They seemed like a mature person who had a couple advanced degrees and numerous professional training certifications. As our conversation unfolded over the months, Sensei and I had the niggling sense that they lacked affinity with us, but we weren't quite clear why.

After a few months of discussing training and making some preliminary movements in that direction, this student finally gave voice to what they'd had been holding back – they wanted to know what they'd be qualified to do, what certificate they'd get, and when. In other words, what will I receive if I do this? (This transactional approach isn't uncommon, although some students are better at keeping it under wraps as a secret practice.)

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I explained that Zen (for us) wasn't about certificates; it was about wholeheartedly doing the training just for the sake of the practice itself – for the love of the buddhadharma (aka, "awake truth") – with no guarantees about outcomes. As I said that, especially the part about no guarantees, I noticed they winced a bit and a micro-expression that I read as disdain flickered across their face. Needless to say, they didn't enter training.

In this post, I'll more fully unpack what I meant by "wholeheartedly doing the training just for the love of the buddhadharma," offer some recent thoughts by Viners about the Vine, and offer a next step for you.

Tetsugan Sensei and I, you see, work with householders to provide a training trellis for their Way Seeking Hearts. We have vowed to our teachers and to each other to transmit the red thread of the dharma that runs through the generations (that has run through us all) - only if we find an appropriate person or persons.

More about us here:

Vine Teachers
Dōshō Port Rōshi is a senior Zen teacher who began practice in 1977 with the Zen pioneer, Dainin Katagiri Rōshi. Dōshō received dharma transmission from Katagiri Rōshi following thirteen years of rigorous training. After Katagiri Rōshi’s death in 1990, Dōshō went on to study with twenty Zen teachers in Europe,

I recently shared this about our hearts' innermost aspiration:

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[Our] task in general is to share with you the Zen way of intimate self-knowledge (aka, kensho) and the incomparable joy that comes with it. This discovery is a turning point in a life of practice. Tetsugan Sensei and I, in harmony with the Zen tradition of Dogen Zenji and Hakuin Zenji, stress the dynamic synergy of zazen, study, and engagement in order to open intimate self-knowledge and also to refine, practice, and more fully realize the same. Understanding the buddhadharma's analysis of this one life, arousing the intention to awaken, receiving instruction in the methods of training, and applying those methods with diligence are vitally important - as is sticking with it through thick and thin no matter how long (or short) the road seems to be.

And for transmitting the red thread, we are committed to the highest traditional standards. To paraphrase the great Nanquan, we might have to wait until the year of the ass and still only find one-half a person (note: there is no "year of the ass"). There certainly is no guarantee that we will fulfill our vow.

So, at best, most of our students will not receive dharma transmission (shiho) or the certification of the mark (inka shomei - the final authorization). Given that we are not interested in running a Zen transmission mill, you might wonder (and our students might also sometimes wonder, as the person mentioned above certainly wondered), what's in it for them?

Primarily, kensho and post-kensho training geared to the nitty-gritty daily-life functioning of great compassion. The great joy and profound meaning these can give to a life are really enough.

And yet, there are other aspects too. First, a heart connection with a lineage and a training group. We are not alone, but without close teacher-student and student-student relationships, it sure can feel like we are. Second, there is deep satisfaction from doing one's utmost to do what can be done in this very life, to dream the impossible dream, and to apply oneself with uncommon devotion and integrity.

More specifically, the deeply settled heart that is suddenly discovered through focussed zazen over a long period of time makes all the difficulty of training worthwhile. And immersing ourselves in the buddhadharma through study under the guidance of qualified teachers, purifies and transforms consciousness through and through.

Some recent comments by Vine students about the Vine

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"I don’t see how I would possibly be practicing Zen, at least not to this depth, without it." - AC
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"It has changed my life for the better. I used to tell myself lots of stories about myself and my practice. The Vine is a living container that helps me to reflect and to appreciate what other practitioners are doing. By sharing my practice...I have seen that I am not alone in this path. I feel protected here." - EC
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"The shared container of training and practice. Knowing that you all are training with me gives me energy for the way. I like to look at the zazen totals and see all the numbers showing up. It brings me joy to know that I am not alone in this journey." - NR
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"It is like my second home. It is so helpful to share my life with other dedicated practitioners who share my ideals and aspirations as well as my worries and fears." - DK
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"The vision that the teachers had for the Vine was a container that allows householders to practice with the kind of intensity and devotion that's needed for this path. And I honestly used to think that that was impossible for me personally as a householder. Now I know it's perfectly possible, I can give it my all, and I am well supported." - SN
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"I value the continuous accountability and the practice momentum that we build up together." - FK

Checking us out

If you are interested in exploring Zen training under our guidance and with the Vine sangha, and think you might find affinity with wholeheartedly doing the training just for the love of the buddhadharma, you can find information about our training trellis and next steps here:

About us
Vine of Obstacles Zen supports householders in developing and deepening wholehearted practice through creative and engaging online modalities. We emphasize the importance of kenshō (literally, “seeing nature”) as the foundation of applying the truth of nonduality to the nitty-gritty details of daily life in order to actualize the Great Vows

To check us out, we recommend attending some group practice sessions, offered most Sundays from 10:00am to 11:15am Central Time.

We'll also be offering a one-day retreat on Sunday, July 28, 6:00am CT-4:30pm CT, and that would be a good way to begin to get acquainted. Invitations for the day of practice will go out soon to all paid subscribers.

Thank you for subscribing. If you aren't yet a paid subscriber, please consider becoming one, then go ahead and click the bottom below to sign up.

You might wonder, is it really possible to do this work mostly online as a householder? Yes!

Here are some other posts on this general theme:

Is Our Practice Sufficient? A Reflection On “A Deep Feeling of Inadequacy”
Is our practice today sufficient to transmit the life of Buddha to future generations?
Can Householders Really Do The Work of Zen?
You will need to let go of living your life based on fleeting and fickle human feelings. Beyond that, it is really simple. Find teachers with a training program that challenges you to throw yourself into the house of Buddha with wild abandon.
The “Zen Center Model” is Broken: Excerpt from “Further Zen Conversations”
In the fall, I met with Rick McDaniel for an interview for his new book, Further Zen Conversations. Rick has published a bunch of really good books about Zen in recent years (click here for more). He’s such a skilled interviewer that I encouraged him to start a podcast (but

Coming soon for paid subscribers: One-day retreat invitation for Sunday, July 28, 6:00am CT-4:30pm CT, and a new original translation bonus issue that includes an extended commentary by Yamada Koun and Yasutani Hakuun Roshis: "Is Just Sitting Facing a Wall Enough?"